The Will of God - Righteousness

Message: 70463
From: Ernest Moyer
Subject: The Will of God
Date: Sat, May 14, 2005, 9:19 AM
Topic: Politics and Debates
Reply to Message 70430
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I said, hmmm, where do I start with Holly? You have raised many issues. The difficulty with your post is that it is so abstracted from reality that I have trouble connecting with your thoughts.

I don't want to be like Steffani Murray, who quotes us long passages from the Papers, with little explanation of why.

Part 1: God's Righteous Judgments

You said: The cautions and warnings given are something that come naturally to a loving guardian or a parent **edited here: whether human or otherwise**.

The cautions and warnings are not given to elicit a correction by us. The world is too far gone in its iniquity to expect such great blessing. The cautions and warning are given as a forecast of the inevitable result of our great iniquity. As illustration, consider attributes of God.

2:3.1 God is righteous; therefore is he just. “The Lord is righteous in all his ways.” “‘I have not done without cause all that I have done,’ says the Lord.” “The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.” The justice of the Universal Father cannot be influenced by the acts and performances of his creatures, “for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, no respect of persons, no taking of gifts.”

I could offer a list of references to the above biblical quotations.

On Urantia lists we widely see discussions of God's love, with little consideration of his righteousness, and what that means in terms of his actions, or of his justice, which he metes out as part of the judgment of a realm, or of his judgments which result in drastic actions (in human terms).

2:5.3 The Creators are the very first to attempt to save man from the disastrous results of his foolish transgression of the divine laws. God’s love is by nature a fatherly affection; therefore does he sometimes “chasten us for our own profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.” Even during your fiery trials remember that “in all our afflictions he is afflicted with us.”

Does anyone not understand what that last sentence means? Those fiery trials are the fiery trials of a nuclear holocaust soon to come down upon our heads. Then where will all the love be? Why does God bring such justice? Because we are deserving of the actions we bring upon ourselves.

2:6.7 God is never wrathful, vengeful, or angry. It is true that wisdom does often restrain his love, while justice conditions his rejected mercy. His love of righteousness cannot help being exhibited as equal hatred for sin.

Have we considered what that means? Does his hatred of sin suggest to our primitive minds an apparent lack of love from our Creator?

3:2.8 . . . to you the creature, many of the acts of the all-powerful Creator seem to be arbitrary, detached, and not infrequently heartless and cruel. But again I assure you that this is not true. God’s doings are all purposeful, intelligent, wise, kind, and eternally considerate of the best good, not always of an individual being, an individual race, an individual planet, or even an individual universe; but they are for the welfare and best good of all concerned, from the lowest to the highest . . .

 

3:2.9 We are all a part of the family of God, and we must therefore sometimes share in the family discipline. Many of the acts of God which so disturb and confuse us are the result of the decisions and final rulings of all- wisdom . . .

 

3:2.10 Thus it is that your detached, sectional, finite, gross, and highly materialistic viewpoint and the limitations inherent in the nature of your being constitute such a handicap that you are unable to see, comprehend, or know the wisdom and kindness of many of the divine acts which to you seem fraught with such crushing cruelty, and which seem to be characterized by such utter indifference to the comfort and welfare, to the planetary happiness and personal prosperity, of your fellow creatures. It is because of the limits of human vision, it is because of your circumscribed understanding and finite comprehension, that you misunderstand the motives, and pervert the purposes, of God . . .

 

Thus we can come to a better understanding of God's righteous justice and what that means for judgment. And so many Urantians view these actions from their detached, sectional, finite, gross, and highly materialistic viewpoint.

 

In most cases my brothers and sisters have not reached a level of understanding to appreciate the actions of God.

 

Part 2: The Warnings of Prophecy

 

You said: Just such warnings are shown in the prophecies, but they really are predictions of a human nature who knows what happens when they cross wills with other nations, tribes and sects. It is wrongful to blame God for human war.

 

While this is true it is missing one of the most important elements of creation: Transgression of the Divine Laws. See 2:5.3 above. We might generate conflict because we differ from one another, but we must also remember that we transgress against God. We will be punished for our transgressions. You must bring that into you conceptual scheme.

 

Part 3: Love For God

 

You said: Decide to LOVE God with all your heart and mind and soul.

 

That is wonderful. That gives us guidelines for our personal conduct. But will that correct the direction of the world? Do you not see what is going on around you?

 

You said: Find God's advice in your own heart.

 

Great! But how does that affect the decisions of your brothers and sisters? Do we have a corporate responsibility to one another? And especially, what does it mean for YOUR actions to take the gospel of the kingdom to the world to save your brothers and sisters?

 

You said: There is no other way than for each individual to make this and other critical decisions.

 

Unless we are guided by devotion to God's plans for the future of this world, we will not be making the correct critical decisions. How do you know what decisions to make? Will you flee the coming disasters? Will you tell others what they must do? In order to do that you must be educated and dedicated to his Will.

 

Part 4: Faith Believers

You said: I believe there are too many God-loving and God- knowing faith believers on the planet for such drastic and divine intervention as an evacuation of them ... at least not yet is society godless to that point of critical mass.

Nowhere near is such a scenario.

I am not sure what you mean by "such a scenario." Do you mean a nuclear holocaust? Do you mean a worldwide disaster? Don't you believe we are near a worldwide disaster?

 

You introduce the idea of drastic and divine intervention as an evacuation of them (God's people). I am unsure where you obtained this notion but it is specifically foretold in Biblical Prophecy.

 

Rev 14:1 - 3 -- Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. . . . No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth.

 

Do you know what that song means? A special song for those who have been redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

 

Did you ever read the Book of Enoch? I strongly recommend it. Jesus devoted many, many hours to the study of that book. We have it today almost verbatim to what Jesus read. The very first opening line has this:

 

The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.

 

Do you know how very, very close we are to the day of tribulation? Or how about this one:

 

And for all of you sinners there shall be no salvation, but on you all shall abide a curse.
But for the elect there shall be light and joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth.


Do you want your children to be of the elect who shall inherit the earth? How can you if you do not God's Will.

 

Or this:

 

And when the Righteous One shall appear before the eyes of the righteous, whose elect works hang upon the Lord of Spirits, and light shall appear to the righteous and the elect who dwell on the earth.

 

Do you know the light that will appear when Jesus comes to bring judgment upon this earth?

 

Or this:

 

All the holy ones who are in heaven shall bless Him, and all the elect who dwell in the garden of life.

 

Do you know of the elect who are on that other world, waiting to return to this one?

 

If I understand you correctly you feel that there are too many God-loving and God-knowing faith believers to warrant such an action.

 

Really! Where are they?

 

Count the numbers. Look at the decisions being forged every day leading to the destruction of our social order. Then tell me how the untold billions are contributing to the salvation of mankind.

Holly, I for one do not want to salvage this godless social order. It should see its judgment. But I definitely want to help salvage God's people.

 

How can I do that if I follow delusional scenarios?

 

Ernest

------ On 5/13/05, Mrs. H Carmichael wrote ------

**Edits below**

Please accept my apologies for the edited clarifications, but on thinking about it, I felt they should be made.)

Hi Everyone!

P.2081 - §5 But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.

I agree with Jeff about the forecast. It isn't mysterious in any way, neither is it unusual, uncommon among evolutionary planets, nor is it **edited word omission - "necessarily" supernatural, superhuman or strange. (**Edited** To clarify, that humans in the Bible made the same cautions in previous history as the TUB writer is what makes this type of cautionary prediction not **necessarily** supernatural in origin even though it may have been given by a superhuman or supernatural personality.) The cautions and warnings given are something that come naturally to a loving guardian or a parent **edited here: whether human or otherwise**.

For ages, the evolutionary peoples of time must learn the natural, built-in consequences of crossing the line with each other's levels of aggression and intolerance. War is usually the result of the testing of wills which is the evidence and symptom of his (mankind's) spiritual immaturity. It is the dastardly result of too much reliance upon the animalistic-ego-instinct in man (edited: and human sightedness) rather than the higher self ~ the spiritual counter part.

Parents caution their children the consequences of all sorts of things in life. This is a serious cautionary note of the spiritual counter-part to the animalistic-human part that a society without "God" (as defined in the Urantia Book in the Foreword) will result in sinister consequences. Why?

Because the animalistic human will always default to the egoistic, self-centered and dangerous thinking which results not in the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of mankind, but rather results in "I, Me, Mine and not you" syndrome. It results in "every man for himself" in the ultimate and extreme sense. (*edited clarification: spiritual counter-part... the message rings the truth bells within the individual whether the individual actually understands why and how there is truth in the message.)

No rocket science is needed to understand this struggle between good and evil, human and spiritual, truth and lies, ugliness and beauty, and so on. Just such warnings are shown in the prophecies, but they really are predictions of a human nature who knows what happens when they cross wills with other nations, tribes and sects. It is wrongful to blame God for human war.

The consequences are not what God is going to do to punish, because as we know from the Urantia Book, mankind creates his own hell (on earth) based upon decisions. The consequences are what mankind will do to each other.

Sinister? Yes!

Scary? Yes!

Terrible? Yes!

Disastrous? Yes!

Evil? Yes!

So what is the antidote?

Decide to LOVE God with all your heart and mind and soul.

Find God's advice in your own heart. As the wonderful old song says "peace begins with me"... that means each individual much come to learn that to have peace on earth doesn't require that we look up to sky and pray for it so much as we embrace it in each of our own hearts. Through the process of learning how to LOVE God, one begins the real journey of spiritual change for the better. Loving God leads one to discover that he must learn to love his fellow man.

There is no other way than for each individual to make this and other critical decisions.

There is nothing really mysterious about the consequences of what a godless society will do to the evolutionary peoples of this or any other planet.

I believe there are too many God-loving and God-knowing faith believers on the planet for such drastic and divine intervention as an evacuation of them ... at least not yet is society godless to that point of critical mass.

Nowhere near is such a scenario.

Perhaps nearer to us is the creation of hell on earth through the use nukes and other means of war. But again, man will do this to himself - God would NEVER do it to His children here. In fact, in good read of the Lucifer papers in the Urantia Book, one finds just how much God would not do that... because see here Lucifer still lives because of God's love for even that sinister child of His.

God is a God of LIFE, not of DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.

I hope this is helpful input.

With love,

Holly

------ On 5/13/05, Jeff Dickson wrote ------

Hi Ernest. You ask for my interpretation of:

P.2081 - §5 But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.

...isn't an out-right threat. It's a forecast and if we were'nt too thick skulled we'd HEED it, but since we have FREE WILL and are infected with the Luciferian bug we will bring about that which has been foretold and we are. We didn't need to hear the broadcast about there might be dire consequences if the "bomb" is used in Iran to extrapolate the near future looks glum. You just can't see this any other way than an angry, vengeful God. Hell! Eternal suffering. "I'll show those piss ant mortals you don't f___ with me!!!! Lots of love of there. I can feel it can't you?

Imagine as a child your parents take to you one of their friends house. The evening wears on and not before long you're snuggled up with a couch cushion. At long last your Mom collects your things, you pile into the car half asleep and all the way back the only thing that crosses your mind besides occasional glimpses of how near you are to your goal is a nice, warm bed to crawel into. Getting from A to B is a given (no worries) and that is what being as a little child always meant to me. The inbetween? Ministering to your brethen the truth and in doing so ensuring the next ride will be all the more enjoyable.

------ On 5/13/05, Ernest Moyer wrote ------

Jeff:

In my attempt to inform you of  coming events, and how they express the Will of God, I would ask for your assessment of the following passage:

P.2081 - §5 But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.

When do you think this world-wide disaster will take place? Three years? Ten years? A hundred years?

Is this disaster a local phenomenon, like between Pakistan and India, or is it truly world wide, affecting all countries and all people?

What is meant by disaster? Will it destroy our civilization?

Is the current unhappiness of the human race expressed in the wide spread failure of marriages?

Is animosity expressed in the mass murders in our schools?

Is unrest expressed in the demonstrations against social systems everywhere?

If you were to list all the wars of the twentieth century what would your list look like?

How does this assessment compare with your attitude about God taking eternity to work things out? Or about my attitude?

Did you ever consider the possibility that God lets man judge himself? Did God invent nuclear weapons?

Ernest

------ On 5/12/05, Jeff Dickson wrote ------

Hi Ernest. You wrote:

I am going to carry this a step further. Suppose that God is using this international scenario ! to accelerate the grave crisis of civilization we are now in. Suppose that God is doing it to screen out the unbeliever from the believer. Then those saved by your work would help create a new world, as the old world passes away.

My comment:

What's His hurry? He's got all eternity and haven't we proven by now we're perfectly capable of bringing about ourselves what a God of your persuasion could want? I'm reminded that people in general don't like to take blame. So let's make it God's fault! We don't have any part in our undoing. Better shape up or ship out to an eternity of suffering (No - not that) unless you save your skinny! ME. ME. ME. Come on Ernest how is it it you are so quick to judge others for their lack of divine insight, yet you are completely oblivious to these shades of Luciferian coming from your heart? Does this not throw a switch? Personally I think it should set off a battery.