VISITS WITH GOD

Message: 72262
From: Ernest Moyer
Subject: Visits With God
Date: Mon, Jun 27, 2005, 12:32 PM
Topic: Study
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I am aware of four individuals who report visiting with the Creator. They are the ancient prophet Isaiah, a Seneca Indian chief named Hatcinondon, the ancient writer of the Book of Enoch, and Betty Andreasson. Note that this assumes carriage by Transport Seraphim through space. The individual is taken to this headquarter sphere, which must be Salvington, and then returned to earth. Since these events take place within a very short human time, we must believe that space travel is by some mode other than that limited by the velocity of light. It may even mean that time is abrogated in some mysterious way. (I have elsewhere discussed the abrogation of time, "time travel" as we call it. Or we might consider it as "worm holes" through space. But such power is limited to those high in universe authority, and their delegates.)

 

Isaiah gave this account:
 

Isa 6:1-5 -- In the year that King Uzzi'ah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said: 'Holy, holy, holy is Yahweh of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory.' And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said: 'Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, Yahweh of hosts!'

 

We should keep in mind the limits of vocabulary to a man living in 700 BC. He would naturally substitute familiar images for scenes that went beyond his experience realm. I believe this report is more than presentation of a vision. His words suggest he was actually present in that "temple" and before that awesome "throne." He said he saw the King, Yahweh of hosts.

 

The "seraphim" were there. Now that we know more about Transport Seraphim we wonder about the different types of seraphim that may exist. I shall not discuss here these different types as revealed to us. Isaiah mentions "wings" that covered their face and feet. I can imagine that these were different parts of the seraphim for which Isaiah found familiar symbols. Remember the "shields" that closed?

 

P.438 - §5 The erroneous idea that angels possess wings is not wholly due to olden notions that they must have wings to fly through the air. Human beings have sometimes been permitted to observe seraphim that were being prepared for transport service, and the traditions of these experiences have largely determined the Urantian concept of angels. In observing a transport seraphim being made ready to receive a passenger for interplanetary transit, there may be seen what are apparently double sets of wings extending from the head to the foot of the angel. In reality these wings are energy insulators--friction shields.

 

You can see that the Urantia Papers also use the phrase "from the head to the foot."

I do not know why he described "smoke." I know the Hebrew word is used to denote someone who is extremely angry, "on a smoke." It may denote attributes of the surroundings or habiliments of Yahweh. Other reporters describe walls of fire. See below.

Importantly, he felt the awesome holiness of God.   Although this report is obscured by lack of detail, other accounts are more descriptive. In the "Myths of the Cherokee," published by the United States Government Printing Office in 1900, as part of the Nineteenth Annual Report of the Bureau of American Ethnology, the story is given of a Seneca chief named Hatcinondon. He was caught in a battle with the Cherokee. They chased him into a canebrake which they set on fire to force him out. He ran to a neighboring brake where he lay down and fell asleep because he was so tired. After both canebrakes burned the Cherokee could not find Hatcinondon's body in the ashes.
 

"At night, while he was still asleep, two men came and took him by the arm, saying, 'We have come for you. Somebody has sent for you.' They took him a long way, above the sky vault, until they came to a house. Then they said, 'this is where the man lives who sent for you.' He looked, but could see no door. Then a voice from inside said, 'Come in,' and something like a door opened of itself. He went in and there sat Hawennio, the Thunder god." 

 

"Hawennio said, 'I have sent for you and you are here. Are you hungry?' Hatcinondon thought, 'That's a strange way to talk; that's not the way I do -- I give food.' The Thunder knew his thoughts, so he laughed and said, 'I said that only in fun.' He rose and brought half a cake of bread, half a wild apple, and half a pigeon. Hatcinondon said, 'This is very little to fill me,' but the Thunder replied, 'If you eat that , there is more. He began eating, but, as he ate, everything became whole again, so that he was not able to finish it." 

 

"While he was sitting he heard some one running outside and directly the door was thrown open and the Sun came in, so bright that Hatcinondon had to hold his head down. The two beings talked together, but the Seneca could not understand a word, and soon the visitor went out again. Then the Thunder said, 'That is the one you call the Sun, who watches the world below. It is night down there now, and he is hurrying east. He says there has just been a battle. I love both the Seneca and the Cherokee, and when you get back to your warriors you must tell them to stop fighting and go home. Again he brought food, half of each kind, and when Hatcinondon had eaten the Thunder said, 'Now my messengers will take you to your place.'" 

 

"The door opened again of itself, and Hatcinondon followed the two Sky People until they brought him to the place where he had slept, and there left him . . ."

This is a most fascinating account. It has several elements which show unique information.  

1. Intertwined in the details are Indian interpretations according to their customs.

a. In hospitality, the courtesy of asking if he was hungry.

b. The manner of food being offered before dialogue.

c. The sound of someone running outside, as would be heard in an earthly Indian setting.

d. The interpretation of a Brilliant Being as the Sun.

e. The belief that this "Sun" had to be busy about his place in the cycle of night and day.

 

2. He is taken by two "men" above the sky vault. In other words, he traveled through space.

 

3. He was taken to a "house." If we follow other reports we will recognize that this was no ordinary house, but the residence of the Creator. Again, this shows the primitive concept notions of the Seneca and Cherokee.

 

4. The "man" who welcomed him would be the Creator. Again the Indians reduced this to their conceptual understanding.

 

5. The "man's" name was Hawennio. (This is pronounce as Hawen-neyoo.) This name is common across North American Indian tribes and is elsewhere known as Hawaneyu. It was their name for the Creator. Hawaneyu is a combination of two forms, hawa and neyu. "Hawa" was an ancient Semitic word, still retained in Hebrew, which means "to form" or "to mold." Refer to Halkins 201 Hebrew Words, published by Barron's Educational Series, 1970. Hawa as the name for the Creator was not limited to the North American Indians; it was used universally across the planet in very ancient times. Hawa was also used prevalently in those ancient days as a name for places. It is found yet today in such widely separated regions as Hawa, Syria and Hawa, Mongolia. It is also found in Awah Island, Kuwait, Awa, Ethiopia, and Awa, Okinawa. (No, the "awa" ending of Okinawa is not an accident.) The Hebrew Yahweh is the same word in another inflected variation. Where Hawa is the past tense meaning "builder" or "molder," Yahweh is the future tense meaning "he will form" or "he will mold." The difference in tense emphasizes the past action of the Creator versus his future action. He will create a new world.

 

6. The scene about the "Sun" entering is another indication of the Indian method of dealing with a being in brilliant white light. The Thunder god would be the Creator, but the story has been styled to make it more palatable to Indian minds.

 

7. He shows his humility in the presence of this mighty being by bowing his head. It is not that he had to hold his head down because of the brightness of the being, but because of his great awe.

 

8. The purpose of the visit ostensibly is to get Hatcinondon to stop warfare among the Indian tribes. Although this is an admirable admonition, it seems trivial to such an exercise, with the Creator surely knowing that the Indians will continue to fight one another. Perhaps there were other purposes to the visit which were not preserved in the Indian record.

I come now to one of the most stunning items in the account. No one in historical times knew what is meant by "something like a door opened of itself." Or "The door opened again of itself." I was deeply impressed by this item; it could not have been invented by the Indians, and shows only in modern UFO reports. The Indian account had to be real, although highly distorted.

Compare this item with persons who claimed to have been taken on board space transports, either consciously, or as abductees.
 

"I marveled anew at the unbelievable way in which they were able to fit parts together so that joinings were imperceptible. ...there was not sign of the door that had closed behind us; only what looked like solid wall." George Adamski, Inside the Space Ships.

 

"...it was impossible to make out where the entrance door had been only a second before, for when it closed by lifting up, it became part of the wall. ...Finally there was nothing to be seen of the legs, and the bottom looked as smooth and polished as if that tripod had never been there at all in the first place. I couldn't see any sign of where the legs had disappeared. These people really know their business." Villas-Boaz, Flying Saucer Occupants by Jim and Carol Lorenzen.

 

"...And he went across the room to the head of the table and he did something, and the metal of the wall, there was an opening." Betty Hill, Interrupted Journey.

 

Only through study of the modern reports did I come to realization of this remarkable nugget preserved in the American Indian folk story. Not only did the modern reports confirm the reality of that nugget, they also supported one another in revelation of unusual properties of transport personalities.
 

I shall go on to the account in the ancient Book of Enoch; it is more explicit about a visit with the Creator. I quote here from the 1913 Oxford edition translated by R. H. Charles. The passage is in I Enoch 14:8-25.
 

"Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly, and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. 

 

"And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire, and it began to affright me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals; and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor made of

crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. It ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and the heaven was clear as water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice. There were no delights of life therein. Fear covered me, and trembling got hold of me. 

 

"As I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision. And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendor and magnificence and extent that I cannot fully describe to you its splendor and its extent. And its floor was made of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. 

 

"As I looked I saw therein a lofty throne. Its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. And from beneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. 

 

"And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face for reason of the magnificence and glory, and no flesh could behold Him. 

 

"The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him. Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him, yet he needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. 

 

"Until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling. And the Lord called to me with His own mouth, and said to me, ęCome hither, Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me. He made me rise up and approach the door, and I bowed my face downward."


1. Hatcinondon was lifted into the vault of heaven. Enoch was lifted upward and born into heaven by a "mist" or "cloud." From previous discussions we can now understand what is meant by a "cloud."

2. Adamski and The Urantia Papers state that seraphic transports are carried on the currents of space. Enoch said the "lightnings" sped and hastened him, and the "winds" caused him to fly.

3. Isaiah described a "temple." Here Enoch portrays a magnificent edifice, beyond his abilities to describe. Quite likely, the edifice had an outer court, and an inner sanctuary where Christ Michael is located.

4. Isaiah described a "throne." Here Enoch portrays a lofty throne. We do not know what is meant by "wheels" but they probably are attempt to describe the footings or settings of the throne.

5. Isaiah said he talked with Yahweh. Enoch talked with a Great Glory, the Lord.

6. Isaiah saw cherubim. Enoch saw cherubim.

7. Isaiah described "smoke." Enoch described flaming fire, probably his best attempt to portray the glory of shining crystals.

8. Hatcinondon bowed his head at the brightness of the "Sun." Enoch bowed his head in the presence of the Great Glory.

9. Enoch entered through tongues of fire which made him greatly afraid.  

I shall now go on to the report from Betty Andreasson, The Andreasson Affair, Raymond Fowler, 1979. We must keep in mind that Betty's report came through hypnosis, and all of its opportunity for confabulation. As I explained before, the technique of bringing conscious recall to Betty after each hypnotic session, in order for her to draw pictures, introduced considerable adulteration of her account. That adulteration increased with each passing session. Nevertheless, sufficient detail exists to compare against Enoch.

Betty described what apparently was departure from the transport, although she was unaware that it was so. She and her escorts, two of them as with Hatcinondon, enter a tunnel. This could have been a hallway in the transport. More likely it was a tunnel in the Sea of Glass. Refer to my other reports.

 

1. "And we are coming to some kind of glass -- mirror, or glass."

2. "And they are going through it! We are going through it -- through that mirror." Enoch stated that he drew up to a wall of crystal.

3. "I'm in a place where it's all red. The atmosphere is all red, vibrating red... And their suits look red. Only their head things look blackish-red." Later, in "debriefing," Betty was asked if the redness was an effect from the horizon. This she denied, saying the atmosphere was red all over. Enoch said he went into tongues of fire, and became greatly afraid. A vibrating red atmosphere may have appeared to him as "tongues of fire."

4. Betty then describes strange lemur-like animals, filling the landscape. Perhaps she saw spornagia.
 

Page 416: "The architectural headquarters worlds of the local universe are real worlds -- physical creations. There is much work connected with their physical upkeep, and herein we have the assistance of a group of physical creatures called spornagia. They are devoted to the care and culture of the material phases of these headquarters worlds, from Jerusem to Salvington. Spornagia are neither spirits nor persons; they are an animal order of existence, but if you could see them, you would agree that they seem to be perfect animals."

5. She was then taken through a landscape which she described as "beautiful."
 

"It's beautiful here. Oh, its so beautiful here... And now we are in the green atmosphere... Going along it seems like mist or sea or something off to the side there. Beautiful. And off to the side, I see -- I don't know if they are fish or what. It looks like a combination fish and bird. ...It's getting brighter green and beautiful. Oh, its so beautiful. That one in front told me, 'See, I told you not to be afraid.' There's a lot of different stuff I'm seeing, but I can't describe it. It's just unusual and different. Plants are different. It's like, uh - long stems that come out in loops and the different colors.

 

She goes on to describe strange pyramid-like buildings, flying objects she does not understand, and in the distance what she thought was a "city." 
 

6. "And I'm coming before a bright light -- crystals with bright, bright light, and clear crystals that have rainbows all in it. It is all crystal all around -- all forms of crystal. I don't know what it is. I'm afraid. I want to go back. And the bright light ahead. ...They are taking me through these crystals. That bright light is up ahead. ...Oh-h-h-h, that bright light. We are stopping and the two are getting off the thing. (Atmospheric transport). And I'm just there, before the light.

Note the many similarities with the account from Enoch. Betty was taken through a crystalline entrance, as was Enoch. She was greatly afraid, as was Enoch. She saw a brilliant light, as did Enoch and Hatcinondon.

7. "I'm seeing something like a large bird -- huge, huge bird. It is standing with its wings and the light is in back of it." This differs from the other accounts. Enoch saw a Great Glory. Hatcinondon saw the "Sun."

 

8. "Whew. It is hot, I'm so hot. I'm so hot. I feel like I'm burning, I'm so hot." Compare this with Enoch who felt that it was as hot as fire, yet as cold as ice.

9. She goes on to describe how the huge eagle-like bird begins to be consumed in flame and dwindles down to a thick, clay like worm that appears in the ashes. The purpose of this scene is unknown except that it replicates ancient myths of the Phoenix bird being consumed by flame, turning into a worm, and then resurrecting once again. At that point she hears someone speaking in a loud voice.  
 

10. "You have seen, and you have heard. Do you understand?" "They called my name, and repeated it again in a louder voice." I said, "No, I don't understand what this is all about, why I'm even here. And they -- whatever it was -- said, 'I have chosen you.'" 

 

"For what have you chosen me?" 

 

"I have chosen you to show the world." 

 

Betty asked, "Are you God? Are you the Lord God?" 

 

"I shall show you as your time goes by." 

 

"Are you my Lord Jesus? I would recognize my Lord Jesus." 

 

"I love you. God is love, and I love you." 

 

"Why was I brought here?" 

 

"Because I have chosen you." 

 

"Why won't you tell me why and what for?" 

 

"The time is not yet. It shall come. That which you have faith in, that which you trust." 

 

"It is true. I have faith in God, and I have faith in Jesus Christ. Praise God, praise God, praise God. There is nothing that can harm me. There is nothing that can make me fear. I have faith in Jesus Christ." 

 

"We know child. We know child, that you do. That is why you have been chosen. I am sending you back now. Fear not ... Be of comfort. Your own fear makes you feel these things. I would never harm you. It is your fear that you draw to your body, that causes you to feel these things. I can release you, but you must release yourself of that fear, though my son."

Here Ray Fowler makes a comment:
 

"The words 'through my son' suddenly became the catalyst for the most moving religious experience that I have ever witnessed. Betty's face literally shone with unrestrained joy as tears streamed down her beaming face."

Betty is then returned by the two entities she described as "angels."  

We know that the Creator is the Son. Therefore, Betty is interpreting according to her understanding of the Father-Son relationship.  

You can see once again there is a timeliness to unfolding events. This information is now made known at a time of great planetary decision.  

Betty was "chosen," as other have been "chosen" for specific tasks. Hatcinondon, Isaiah, and Enoch were all "chosen," as Melchizedek chose the prophets and seers of ancient Israel. She was chosen because of her love for her Creator, for Jesus. She probably was also chosen because of her unique "theological" beliefs which made her amenable to these experiences. 

The full extent of Betty's contribution remains to be seen. I had considerable correspondence with Betty and visited with her. She truly believes she has been specially chosen, but she does not understand the nature of unfolding events. She rejected an offer of The Urantia Papers I made to her. I sent her a copy, upon which receipt she told me she immediately placed it in "storage."  

Ernest