A Note to Edgar Paternina
I did not preserve this article with an
identifiable Ubron file and hence cannot
show its heredity. However the file was
near July 2, 2005.
I write this to you for several reasons.
You and I have been in contact with one another intermittently for some years.
We both have Electrical Engineering degrees. Your academic concentration was different from mine but a lot of common background exists.
In your responses to my posts I saw an "evolution" in reaction, as though you were groping to accommodate to what I reported. You introduced several new ideas that had me confused, and I responded to you in a confused manner. Perhaps this will help to clarify.
Here you introduce the concept of an "inner body," or soul that can be transported.
Regarding space travels, I think you have made a great contribution to it in the context of FER, and I already have thank you for it; another thing is the interpretation of it, you have one and many of us, including me, Josh and Boris, have another, but does it really matter? In this another interpretation the love of God is included too as Its ways as well.
Brother Ernest and others interested,
First of all thank for your great effort for FER, with this work!
My interpretation of these two possibilities you present of space travels is:
- yes, that one of John and Paul can be interpreted as visions, and
- those others of Enoch and others I can interpret as a transportation, not of the external part of their personality (material body), but of the inner part, as it were, the soul, where their beings where taken to the Cristal field; this working hypothesis is simpler than that other one of the material body... when you write... Enoch probably was describing the receiving stations for the various orders of beings who traverse space by seraphic transport. In this case, that station reserved for human mortals... I do not understand why you insist in our material aspect, I do not see the connection. We have an inner self with seven inner senses according to my working hypothesis, that for sure does not have the problem that material, physical energy has with the velocity of light. This is my great criticism to the material hypothesis.
Please, I hate to be polemic, I hope this goes for the sake of truth. Even Paul was not sure how his experience was.
2 Cor 12:2-5: I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven - whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise - whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows - and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. Truth & Beauty & Goodness
PS: Please note that we are working with human interpretations, not with absolute truths.
First of all I don't have any problem with understanding seraphic transport and maybe I have not made myself clear.
My point is that combustion bodies must be dematerialized for transport, physicallly it must be destroyed?
My working hypothesis is that we have a dual body:
- one strictly material
- and another inner one which is even more real than its correspondent outer-material part; that inner body seems to be a lower morontial one that can be transported.
In Jerusem they have this dematerializing technique but here it is not possible except for the whole survivors,in which the Melchizedeks and the Life Carriers work together to install the technique for those that have developed an inner correspondent body, because we know there are ones that are not interested in an eternal life.
The problem with us, human mortal beings, is that we give too much value to this temporal material body. We think it is essential for our future life and it is not. It is our inner component the one that is more permanent, but this inner body must evolved by means of our decisions, good ones, of course.
Resuming, what can be enseraphimed is our inner body. It seems that that technique of materialization, or obtaining our corresponding outer part is easier, is available here, as it took ten days "before they were re-created in dual human form"...
Truth & Beauty & Goodness
[Edgar Paternina has proposed that the process of being enseraphimed turns the combustion body into some other, to me very mysterious, form. But we know that it awakens again to the way it was on the first world.]
Oh, brother Ernest, this is my last post in this thread, I hate to be polemic for the sake of goodness; what I proposed is precisely that which our spiritual tradition called long long ago the soul, not so mysterious after all, for all those that have participated in some way in that tradition. If you do not want to see that, I cannot do anything, so please if you are going to reply use sound arguments. Are you not being so, so literal in your views?
[In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit. Even though you must live your material life through, even though you cannot escape the body and its necessities, nonetheless, in purpose and ideals you are empowered increasingly to subject the animal nature to the mastery of the Spirit. There truly exists within you a conspiracy of spiritual forces, a confederation of divine powers, whose exclusive purpose is to effect your final deliverance from material bondage and finite handicaps.
The purpose of all this ministration is, "That you may be strengthened with power through His spirit in the inner man." And all this represents but the preliminary steps to the final attainment of the perfection of faith and service, that experience wherein you shall be "filled with all the fullness of God," "for all those who are led by the spirit of God are the sons of God."] Pag 381
Goodness & Truth & Beauty
Hi Nancy, Ernest and everyone interested,
As the subject is the same and we must save space, my answer is for both of you, sister Nancy and brother Ernest.
[What has the soul got to do with the transport of the human mortal coil through space?
If the human mortal goes, the soul of that human mortal goes with him.
If our Planetary Supervisors should deem it useful to take away 144,000 for a continuing program on another world, the souls of those 144,000 would go with them.
I think I amply demonstrated, from the Urantia Papers, from the Bible, from the Book of Enoch, and from contemporary human experience, that some of us are being prepared for just such transport. Transport not merely of our souls, but transport of the physical human body.]
My point is that what you call, Ernest, a demonstration of the transport of the physical human body, is just an interpretation, were it a scientific demonstration then we would not be discussing. I am sorry but I think I have explained my point of view regarding this subject in several posts, so I do not want to repeat myself. Please you cannot going on classifying people because they do not share what is just your belief, remember that...
[The Spirit never drives, only leads. If you are a willing learner, if you want to attain spirit levels and reach divine heights, if you sincerely desire to reach the eternal goal, then the divine Spirit will gently and lovingly lead you along the pathway of sonship and spiritual progress. Every step you take must be one of willingness, intelligent and cheerful co-operation. The domination of the Spirit is never tainted with coercion nor compromised by compulsion.
And when such a life of spirit guidance is freely and intelligently accepted, there gradually develops within the human mind a positive consciousness of divine contact and assurance of spirit communion; sooner or later "the Spirit bears witness with your spirit (the Adjuster) that you are a child of God." Already has your own Thought Adjuster told you of your kinship to God so that the record testifies that the Spirit bears witness "with your spirit," not to your spirit.] Pag 381.