Is God So Cruel?
Message: 78240
From: Ernest Moyer
Subject: Issues, Issues, Issues!
Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2005, 12:30 PM
Topic: Study
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Ladies and Gentlemen:


Are you then all so ignorant of a Divine Revelation?


3:2.1 All the universes know that “the Lord God omnipotent reigns.” The affairs of this world and other worlds are divinely supervised. “He does according to his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth.” It is eternally true, “there is no power but of God.”


Do you know what it means for the affairs of this world, all the affairs of this world, to be divinely supervised? Nothing, but nothing ever happens on any of his created worlds that is not under his direct management.


Do you have the mental acuity to understand and extrapolate the Great Truth: “He does according to his will . . . among the inhabitants of the earth.”


Where then is this foolish concept that we bring our own doom without his divine intervening hand?


3:2.3 . . . This declaration of physical fact is predicated on the incomprehensible truth that the First Source and Center is the primal cause of the universal physical phenomena of all space. From this divine activity all physical energy and other material manifestations are derived.


If we blow ourselves up in a nuclear holocaust are you trying to tell me that God is not present in that act?


Or if we need a nuclear holocaust to cleanse the earth, how then can you not imagine such a drastic corrective measure coming directly from the hand of God?


3:2.4 God controls all power; he has made “a way for the lightning”; he has ordained the circuits of all energy. He has decreed the time and manner of the manifestation of all forms of energy-matter.


You people do not really know your Revelation.


3:2.6 The Universal Father is not a transient force, a shifting power, or a fluctuating energy. The power and wisdom of the Father are wholly adequate to cope with any and all universe exigencies. As the emergencies of human experience arise, he has foreseen them all, and therefore he does not react to the affairs of the universe in a detached way but rather in accordance with the dictates of eternal wisdom and in consonance with the mandates of infinite judgment. Regardless of appearances, the power of God is not functioning in the universe as a blind force.


3:2.7 Situations do arise in which it appears that emergency rulings have been made, that natural laws have been suspended, that misadaptations have been recognized, and that an effort is being made to rectify the situation; but such is not the case. Such concepts of God have their origin in the limited range of your viewpoint, in the finiteness of your comprehension, and in the circumscribed scope of your survey; such misunderstanding of God is due to the profound ignorance you enjoy regarding the existence of the higher laws of the realm, the magnitude of the Father’s character, the infinity of his attributes, and the fact of his free-willness.


Don't you understand that it is the circumscribed scope of your survey and in the profound ignorance you enjoy regarding the existence of the higher laws of the realm that you cannot comprehend the power of God?


3:2.8 Therefore, to you the creature, many of the acts of the all-powerful Creator seem to be arbitrary, detached, and not infrequently heartless and cruel. But again I assure you that this is not true. God’s doings are all purposeful, intelligent, wise, kind, and eternally considerate of the best good, not always of an individual being, an individual race, an individual planet, or even an individual universe; but they are for the welfare and best good of all concerned, from the lowest to the highest. In the epochs of time the welfare of the part may sometimes appear to differ from the welfare of the whole; in the circle of eternity such apparent differences are nonexistent.


Don't you understand that the seemingly arbitrary, detached, and not infrequently heartless and cruel acts of God are done for the eternally considerate of the best good, not always of an individual being, an individual race, an individual planet, or even an individual universe; but they are for the welfare and best good of all concerned?


Can you comprehend this great truth:


3:2.9 We are all a part of the family of God, and we must therefore sometimes share in the family discipline.


3:2.10 Thus it is that your detached, sectional, finite, gross, and highly materialistic viewpoint and the limitations inherent in the nature of your being constitute such a handicap that you are unable to see, comprehend, or know the wisdom and kindness of many of the divine acts which to you seem fraught with such crushing cruelty, and which seem to be characterized by such utter indifference to the comfort and welfare, to the planetary happiness and personal prosperity, of your fellow creatures. It is because of the limits of human vision, it is because of your circumscribed understanding and finite comprehension, that you misunderstand the motives, and pervert the purposes, of God. But many things occur on the evolutionary worlds which are not the personal doings of the Universal Father.


Does that sound like Ernest Moyer. You bet. I am with God, for God, and to the best of my ability I will do the Will of God.


So don't tell me about doom and gloom.


But I suppose you will gather great wisdom out of the last sentence, that we can argue for eternity.


10:6.4 Judgment, the final application of justice in accordance with the evidence submitted by the personalities of the Infinite Spirit, is the work of the Stationary Sons of the Trinity, beings partaking of the Trinity nature of the united Father, Son, and Spirit.


10:6.8 Justice is the collective thought of righteousness; mercy is its personal expression. Mercy is the attitude of love; precision characterizes the operation of law; divine judgment is the soul of fairness, ever conforming to the justice of the Trinity, ever fulfilling the divine love of God. When fully perceived and completely understood, the righteous justice of the Trinity and the merciful love of the Universal Father are coincident. But man has no such full understanding of divine justice.


Study Paper 10 if you want to come to understand divine justice and executive judgment.




Message: 78229
From: Steffani Murray
Subject: Issues, Issues, Issues!
Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2005, 10:21 AM
Topic: Study
Reply to Message 78226

Thank you Sandor for this realistic assessment...

It is short-sightedly superstitious enough to "blame the d-evil" for human stupidness based upon animalistic evolutionary traits...and calling naturally occurring disasters "acts of God" like the insurance companies do...not scapegoating and accepting responsibility to live according to Father's Will and Plan would avert or ameliorate the vast majority of human miseries extant on Urantia today.

. . .


------ On 12/7/05, Sandor Szabados wrote ------

Message: 78226
From: Sandor Szabados
Subject: Issues, Issues, Issues!
Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2005, 8:38 AM
Topic: Study
Reply to Message 78201

Hi Ernest,

You wrote: If God is about to destroy this civilization...

There is nothing in the Divine Revelation - the Urantia Papers - that says so. That the planet is on the brink of self-destruction there is ample evidence, but the Four Horsemen of the Apocalipse - global warming, terrorism, flu pandemic, and economic breakdown - are man made. So, it is man who is about to destroy Urantia, not God. The God of the Revelation - the Universal Father - is righteousness, love, and mercy, not vengeance and punishment. God's law is "As we sow so shall we reap" and we are beginning to reap the bitter harvest of human selfishness, arrogance, short-sightedness and stupidity.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.


------ On 12/6/05, Ernest Moyer wrote ------

Message: 78201
From: Ernest Moyer
Subject: Issues, Issues, Issues!
Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2005, 12:11 PM
Topic: Study
Reply to Message 78193
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You must explain to me why you regard the destruction of the current social order as doom and gloom.

Since the Urantia Papers regard this present civilization as a godless society, why do you wish to carry on with it?

If so, aren't your wishes counter to the plans of God? If God is about to destroy this civilization, do you also project doom and gloom upon God?

Are you sure you understand what is happening? It doesn't seem that you do. In fact I am appalled that you do not recognize the difference between salvaging a godless society, and doing the work necessary to achieve a new and oncoming social order.

I am very sure that those who do not understand the plans of God would regard these earthly prophets as exhibiting "doom and gloom." But then you fail to understand holiness and righteousness.

As someone said:

"An objective observer, gazing upon the world, must recognize the deep-rooted problems which afflict mankind. From physical pollutions of the world to great moral decay, social deterioration, and spiritual perversion, we see not the hand of God, but the results of general apostasy, greed, and grasping for material power. Huge segments of the globe now deny the existence of God. Christianity was ineffective in stemming the tide of spiritual perversion and materialistic world decay. Christianity failed to convert this world to righteousness and holiness. It now stands as the fossilized remnant of two millennia of frustrated hope in the spiritual revival of mankind."

Most present day Urantians are in the same boat, hanging their hats on a false premise.

Unless I misunderstand you, you are in that crowd.

If you want to know more about my "unsupported beliefs" you may be surprised at my understanding, knowledge, and wisdom by visiting my web site at:


------ On 12/6/05, Steve Powell wrote ------

Message: 78193
From: Steve Powell
Subject: Issues, Issues, Issues!
Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2005, 9:40 AM
Topic: Faith Daughters and Sons
Reply to Message 78190

Hello Ernest and UBRON,

Ernest writes: My goodness, Steve, where have you been? On the moon?

Steve Here: Nope I haven't gotten to the moon yet. If I had I would be able to either support or refute Jacques contentions about nonbreatehers on the moon. :) His latest contention is that nonbreathers don't die. What an imagination. It is amazing what imaginations will come up with to support otherwise unsupported beliefs.

Ernest, with regard to your doom and gloom scenarios, have a little faith!

God and his associates created this planet like the rest of the universe and we will endure! If you put as much faith in God and the goodness of the universe as you do your predictions of doom and gloom for all who don't believe like you, you might be a great messenger for the kingdom.

As it is, you sound like all the rest of those who put their faith in atonement and wars on behalf of God. How totally contradictory is that?

Welcome to the Joy of living in God's family. Perpetual hope and love for all, even those who have been and are so misguided as to the true nature of God.

Put a smile on your face and share some hope and joy with those you consider brothers in the kingdom and even better yet, those you think aren't!

With thanks for the real universe filled with hope, joy and the peace that goes with shining a light for the goodness of the kingdom!

To the Glory of God!